Is “KALI” appropriate to describe an indigenous blade based Filipino Martial Arts?
August 6, 2008 by Talibung Antike
True blooded genuine Eskrimadores in the island Panay from the coastal plains to the hinterlands of Aklan, Capiz, Iloilo and Antique who are mostly if not all are World War II underground guerrilla fighters pitted their craft using “Talibungs”, “Sanduko” and “Ginuntings” against the Japanese soldiers’ “Katana” swords and Bayonets in hand to hand combat when they ran out of bullets. One will never hear a word “Kali” from any of them that alludes to fighting whether unarmed or armed confrontation where sticks, spears, or bladed weapons are used. It should be noted that the word “Kali” in the major languages of Panay and Negros (Hiligaynon and Kiniray-a) means “to dig” which refers to a farming or harvesting activity when one has to dig something from the ground like: “to dig camote=kali camote”, “dig peanuts=kali mani”, “dig gabi=kali gabi”. The word in itself has no reference to fighting at all whatsoever. All these veteran fighters and war survivors refers to their craft as “Eskrima, or the act of “Eskrimahay” which refers to skirmish, a confrontational exchange of blows/attacks, offense/ defense- it may be used outside the context of physical combat, as in “eskrimahay ka tinaga” which means a fierce verbal exchange, and may also refer to the use of weapons like: “baston, talibung, binangon, ginunting, sanduko, lantip, sanggot, espading, daga, lugod, bahi, bugsay, tungkod, yaming, tuwang-tuwangan, garab, kaw-it, hal-o, etc”. The experts and practitioners of these indigenous martial arts systems are either called “Eskrimador” or “Bastonero” not “Kalista”, “Kalidor” nor “Kalinero”.
The claim that the word “Kali” came from the Muslim chieftains that established a colony in Kalibo, Aklan — (sometimes cited as the origin of the name “Kali”) is very wrong and has no historical basis at all.
The official history of Kalibo on record states that, Kalibo is a town in Aklan, founded by settlers from Malaysia who came with Datu Bangkaya (The Muslims had never been successful in conquering Panay Island despite relentless attempts even during Spanish times). Upon the arrival of the Spaniards, Madianos (Madyanos) is the primitive Pre-Hispanic name of Kalibo. It was found to be the first place in Aklan with houses grouped together, the inhabitants thereof, already having some form of political organization.
How Kalibo got its present name was because of a mass Christening of One Thousand (1,000) natives in “Madianos” in May, 1566, by a Spanish priest, who came with Adelantado Don Miguel Lopez de Legaspi. One thousand (1,000) is written in the Aklan dialect as “ISA KA LIBO”, “SANG LIBO”, and in order to commemorate and perpetuate this historical fact, the name “Calibo”, a contraction derivative of these three words in the Aklan dialect, was given to the town instead of “MADIANOS”. From year 1566, “CALIBO” was the official name used up to about 1929. Upon the recommendation of the Committee on Geographical Names, the official name “KALIBO” was finally adopted.
If Kali as a blade based fighting system is to be alluded to the word “Kalis”, it is even farther from the true meaning of the Hiligaynon word “Kalis”. “Kalis” in Hiligaynon and Kiniray-a is a verb which means “to scrape off” and if used as a noun it refers to the straight edged wooden or bamboo slat used to swipe the excess grains being measured. The word “Kalis” is a measuring device or activity to ensure accuracy of measurement where the excess are scraped off or leveled out or “kalison” using a “kalis” before counting it as one full unit volume. Traditionally the grains or farm produce like: rice, corn, monggo, sugar, salt, beans, etc are quantified based on traditional volumetric measuring containers like: “ganta or gantangan” (25 gantas = 1 sack), wooden box “panega” (3 panegas=1 sack), “tabig”, and “tabungos”.
(Note: The use of kilograms in measuring plant or farm products is a relatively recent development when the Philippines adopted the metric system during the 1980s)
Hence, based on the aforementioned elucidations the use of the word “Kali” parallel with Arnis and Eskrima in Filipino Martial Arts if it has to be used at all is absurd and very etiologically inappropriate. Example: you “Kali” your opponent! That would mean “you DIG your opponent!” or say: Lets practice “Kali” that would mean “Lets practice DIGGING”
If you KALI your opponent, you DIG your opponent! So he must have been buried, must have been dead a long time ago or a victim of a land slide! That would be the most absurd FMA indeed!
The languages used in Negros Island are “Hiligaynon” (most of Negros Occidental close to Panay Island) and “Bisaya or Cebuano” (Negros Oriental close to Cebu Island). These languages are influences brought by migrants from both islands as workers in the Haciendas of Negros mostly owned by the Hacienderos who are landed elite migrants from Jaro, Iloilo City. If there is no KALI in Cebu Island nor in Panay Island, then claiming KALI as indigenous blade based fighting arts of Panay Island brought to Negros Island is one of the greatest frauds that ever plagued the Filipino Martial Arts History and Martial Arts World as a whole.
It is high time to “KALI” deeper= to “DIG” deeper and ferret out the “TRUTH” about “KALI” as clearly it has no rightful place in the Filipino Martial Arts World historically and etiologically.
This is a big challenge to the well meaning Filipino Martial Arts enthusiasts, avid practitioners, scholars, researchers & historians to start retracing back and DIG deeper into the true Filipino Martial Arts History…. there are still lots to DIG out (KALI) into the open here in PANAY island… the center of the PHILIPPINES.
Welcome to Panay Island PHILIPPINES!
30 Responses to “Is “KALI” appropriate to describe an indigenous blade based Filipino Martial Arts?”
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I think you need to back up your claims with researches and citations from legitimate sources. You’re ranting all these outbursts from hand-down information and passed-by-mouth claims. First of all, try to find out the history of the Muslims, of where they came from and how are they related to the Datu you have mentioned, if you research deeper you will find out they they belong to one ancestral origins. These Datus and the Muslims in Mindanao belonged to the Malay-Indo tribe of Borneo and nearby south east asian countries. Kali is an art from the south, if you happen to know wikipedia, I hope you can look for its etymology. You also happen to criticize and claimed that the right term for the practitioners of the FMA is “eskrimador”, did you ever look up in your sources the root meaning of eskrima??? For one, the term is Spanish, so how would you back up it’s authenticity???
I’m a practitioner of FMA and a researcher as well, I hope that these claims of yours are well founded and backed -up, so as not to make anymore divisions with the practitioner of the Filipino Martial Arts. Regardless of what the term is, whether Eskrima, Arnis, or Kali, you should think that these arts belong to the Filipino culture and we should be proud that these arts are part of our heritage.
I hope one day that all these “pagalingan” and “pataasan ng ihi” will be eradicated from and within the different systems of FMA. I hope that one day we would be united by our differences and appreciate what each of us has to offer, so that… that one day would be a glorious day for the FILIPINO MARTIAL ART and the FILIPINO PEOPLE….
RESPECT- an essential characteristic of a FMA practitioner… RESPECT…
There is nothing personal here. I’m not into FMAS business, nor promoting something or another kind of art. This is simply an exposition of knowledge because we believe that “KNOWLEDGE” is power although “CHOICE” can override it. And we highly “RESPECT” ones “CHOICE” after having the right and appropriate KNOWLEDGE.
BTW FYI “Talibung” has been our Warriors Sword for centuries in ANTIQUE, PANAY ISLAND, PHILIPPINES and until now just like our great forebears we highly respect and treasure it including the care, arts, and sciences of using it.
In fact there are some of the big names in FMAS that their roots are from PANAY Island: Tuhon Leo Gaje & Tortal Families are from Tigbau-an Iloilo, GGM Jesus Pallorina of WEDO is from Sibalom Antique, GM Frank Sobrino of WEDO is from San Jose Antique, GGM Estelloso of Tres Puntas Abanico is from Culasi Antique, GGM Ben Lema of Lightning is from Capiz, GGM Jose Mena of Doblete Rapelon, GGM Jose Vinas of Lapulapu-Vinas is from Iloilo. The Great Grandmaster Angel Cabales one of the first Filipino Eskrimadores who brought the FMAS “Filipino Mandirigmang Agham at Sining” to the United States is from Bgy.Igania, Sibalom, Antique. His native town is famous for its “Talibungs”. From my great ancestors from Aklan and Antique, my grandparents down to my uncles and cousins including me lived our lives with “Talibungs” as a standard issue in our homes. And ever since until now we NEVER call our TRADITIONAL WARRIORS FIGHTING ARTS as “KALI” because we understand and know fully well by heart the true meaning and essence of the word “KALI”. And the biggest question will be: who knows it better than we do- who has the blood of Bangkaya and Sumakwel in our bloodstream, who speaks the language our forebears spoke…the natives- “Tumandok” of PANAY ISLAND PHILIPPINES.
Reminds me of a court trial scene in a movie of long ago. “Shake hands with the Devil”… the setting was IRELAND. Charged for treason, the accused freedom fighter was asked if she has anything to say before the verdict. And she said: “What is an ENGLISH Judge doing in an IRISH Court?”
Anyhow, life is a matter of CHOICE and we highly RESPECT that FREEDOM to choose. In fact that is what our true blooded Filipino National Heroes have fought and shed their blood for- FREEDOM! FMAS is RESPECT and FREEDOM as well!
RESPECTfully,
“Talibung Antike”
My friend, i guess you are already out of context and did not address my concerns at all… Let me remind you again for the nth time to back up your claims with legitimate research… Oh yes, you’ve mentioned some of the ten datus, ever wonder why the scholars call it as the EPIC of the 10 Datus, Epic my friend, epic, and recent discoveries showed that the Maragtas and the Kalantiaw code are both fraud… Id didn’t mention about it on my last comment to give you time to do yourown research… If you want, I can give you title of books that you can look upto…
Qouting you,”This is simply an exposition of knowledge because we believe that “KNOWLEDGE” is power although “CHOICE” can override it. And we highly “RESPECT” ones “CHOICE” after having the right and appropriate KNOWLEDGE.”…”Anyhow, life is a matter of CHOICE and we highly RESPECT that FREEDOM to choose. In fact that is what our true blooded Filipino National Heroes have fought and shed their blood for- FREEDOM! FMAS is RESPECT and FREEDOM as well!” I guess that you don’t examine your utterances well… Exposition you say, Knowledge entails RESPONSIBILITY my friend as much as Freedom does. When sharing knowledge, every one has the responsibility of providing informations that are with factual support, ever heard of responsible journalism????? Misused knowledge and information is almost like a gun blowing your head.
Also, Freedom without responsibility is no freedom at all, it is ANARCHY…
Be FREE but be RESPONSIBLY Free…
Yep, the word Kali is never used in Panay to describe our stick and blade fighting art. It is more popularly known as Arnis or eskrima. But i wouldn’t be surprised if it is known as something else elsewhere in the country. The word kali is said to be used to refer to the same martial arts in southern philippines. Some people theorized that the word kali originated from the word kalis, a mindanaoan sword. Others say that it came from the name of the stick used. Whether this is true or not, no one really knows. More likely just something coined by Filipinos abroad. But the word is the one recognized internationally. The confusion is not surprising however, because the name of this martial arts form is not the only thing clouded with controversy. While many people claim that it is a prehispanic art form brought to the islands by early settlers from malaysia and indonesia, some people argue that it was actually developed during spanish occupation. Go figure.
Btw, the 10 datus, Code of Kalantiao, Maragtas, the origin of the names of places, etc. are either anecdotal or part of the folkhistory of panay. No need to argue over that.
My dear friend Juan, my article questioning the appropriateness of the word “KALI” for an indigenous blade based FMA is in the perspective of somebody who practices a traditional blade based fighting system of Panay for more than thirty years, somebody who lives in Panay and speaks and understand the nuances of the Pre-hispanic Astronesian language “Kiniray-a since birth.
Anyhow, the article is just a glimpse of our forthcoming book “Kina-adman Hangaway sa Panay” where all notations, sources and references will be adequately & properly cited. I have to reiterate once again that it is in no way meant nor intended to demean the skill and abilities of any FMA practitioner, nor belittle the efforts and accomplishments of the great FMA propagators who align themselves under the banner of “KALI” nor we are preventing anybody like you in the use of the word “KALI”. Since you are an FMA KALI practitioner and researcher as well, you must be referring to the controversial piece:
“Mga Karunungan sa Larong Arnis” by Placido Yambao Published in 1957. The first book dedicated to the history and practice of the Filipino Martial Arts.
The Introduction “Maikling Kasaysayan ng Arnis” was written by Buenaventura Mirafuente, the editor of the book.
Mirafuente states that ARNIS was first known as KALI during the early years of the Spanish conquest.(p.10) In particular, mention is made of the arrival of
Miguel Lopez de Legazpi in 1564.
Apparently you believe this KALI myth stated by Mirafuente that haunted some of the FMA enthusiasts, historians and researchers for almost 50 years (1957 to 2008) technically speaking. You sound to be an authority in FMA and a meticulous researcher then you might have solved already the riddles and the missing links that plagued the KALI origin.
Point#1: What was the basis of Mirafuente on KALI then? Why was it not included in the high school and college history textbooks of the Philippines? Please present us a solid irrefutable concrete evidence based on your own personal field research.
Point#2: Since you claim that “KALI is an art from the south”, I assume that you refer it to be Mindanao, Sultanate of Sulu, Basilan and Tawi Tawi islands. Then based on your field research what is this particular tribe in Mindanao if there is any that has this word “KALI” in their language or dialect vocabulary consistent with the supposed meaning to their supposedly “KALI” fighting arts or skill?
Point#3: Where is this particular tribe that practices KALI in Mindanao hiding? The FMA Field Researchers here in Panay Island, Negros Island, and Cebu are very eager to pay them a visit so that once and for all this “KALI Myth” issue will be finally settled and closed.
Point#4: Since you believe in the name “KALI” which has been the subject of our validation check for its possible existence here in Panay Island of which to date we have not found any. Then, please help us by showing us any solid documentary evidence, anthropological and or archaeological evidence (at least more than 50 years old). We might have missed these solid evidences but you might have luckily unraveled and dug them out in your legitimate research. We enjoin you to present your solid evidences that explicitly describe the southern Philippines martial arts of “KALI” and how it really worked, present any genealogy and how it is passed on from one generation to the other, what is its distinct recorded curriculum so that we can submit that to the academe and historical society for evaluation and scrutiny.
Peace be with you my friend,
“Talibung Antike”
The burden of proof lies with those who claim that “kali” is the mother art of escrima & arnis or “kali” is the mother art of all FMA or “kali” is an ancient art from the southern Philippines. Buenaventura Mirafuente introduced the word “kali” in his introduction to the book “Mga Karunungan sa Larong Arnis” by Placido Yambao Published in 1957. Mr. Mirafuente did not back-up his claims with researches and citations from legitimate sources.
The burden of proof lies with those who claim the existence of something. No such burden lies with those who question the existence of something. If one claims that vampires exist, one has to prove it. If one claims that vampires do not exist, it is acceptable that a lack of evidence of the existence of vampires is sufficient to disprove their existence (pending evidence to the contrary). Mr. Mirafuente claimed the existence of kali as mother art or ancient art of the moros. But where is his proof?
The fact that this “kali” story was published in a book back in 1957 does not legitimize it either. Bram Stoker published “Dracula” in 1897 (more than 50 years before Yambao/Mirafuente’s book) and yet it does not prove the existence of vampires just because it was in abook or because it was published so long ago. Neither does anyone need to disprove that vampires exist. The burden of proof lies with those who claim they exist. Same thing with this “kali” story.
Before you even demand proof from those who doubt the “kali” story, you have to demand proof first from those who believe and propagate this “ancient” or “southern” origin of kali.
There have been a number of researchers who have traveled the whole Philippines to find any indication of “kali” being an ancient art or a an art from the south. But “kali” as a fighting art cannot be found in any culture, legend, folktale, history, archive, language, dialect, or collective/individual memory of any of the peoples here (especially the old folk). Those in the southern Philippines have never heard of it either. Sofar, the idea that there ever was a fighting art called “Kali” only exists in the minds of the younger generation of FMA practitioners (mostly found in the west) and in those old folk who have a stake in propagating this idea. Since evidence to support Mirafuente’s claim cannot be found (and since Mirafuente provided no evidence either) the idea that “kali” is the other art of arnis/escrima and the idea that “kali” is an ancient art from the southern Philippines does not hold any water. It cannot be accepted as true.
Torqui is very correct! The burden of proof regarding the Myths about KALI is with those who claim about its authenticity like its avid follower Mr. Juan dela Cruz. Talibung Antike’s exposition about KALI is just based on his personal first hand experiences and knowledge gathered being native to the island of Panay.
KALI may sound cool and indigenous but unlike the other two Spanish sounding Eskrima and Arnis, KALI has no solid and legitimate historical, archaeological, anthropological, and linguistic basis at all. The local Filipino FMA researchers in the Philippines like Mr. Celestino Macachor was said to have searched the Moroland of Mindanao but was not able to find any single authentic Kali Grandmaster, all he found if not Eskrimadores were Silat and Kuntaw Grandmasters. Dr. Ned Nepangue was not able to find any evidence of KALI in his field research in the islands of Samar, Leyte and Cebu. Mr. James Sy Jr. has also been doing a parallel research to validate KALI in the island of Negros where some of the active KALI myth makers came from and so far to date he’s still empty handed of any solid evidence about KALI. I’ve read Gat Puno Abondio Baet of Garimot Arnis, Paete, Laguna it appears that he has not found any evidence about KALI in Luzon area either. If Talibung Antike from Panay did not find any trace of KALI in their area then the case is CLOSED- The claim about KALI as an ancient mother art of Eskrima and Arnis is indeed a big “MYTH”, unless otherwise proven by Mr. Juan dela Cruz through his own first hand evidences and solid proofs to present to the world for scrutiny, verification and validation.
It is interesting to note that most of the authors of KALI myths are formerly eskrimadores/arnisadores students/teachers themselves and are not even based in the Philippines anymore. In fact it is funny to note that some of them have not even set foot in the islands of Mindanao, Sulu, Basilan and Tawi Tawi where they claim KALI came from but they appear to be authorities of this supposedly ancient Filipino fighting art. Very funny… right? Maybe just too many arm chair scholars, desktop “wikipedia” “youtube” FMA researchers, creative writers and wannabe historians and inventors now a days. Apparently, it is more of a commercial media hype to meet the western world’s thirst for something cool- something indigenous and more Filipino sounding words/ arts… something mystical, deadly and bloody… a good commercial line for the innocent unwary victim. It becomes clearer now that the increasing Kali Myths being fabricated and propagated especially by creative Grandmasters in the West who re-packaged and modified their systems by adding KALI to their name and ARNIS/ESKRIMA repertoire are great efforts not for new found truth but simply a new FMA packaging to make it appear as another FMA product line that may look and sound something more exotic when in fact its all the same ARNIS/ESKRIMA just creatively packaged and modified by some talented and gifted FMA teachers who have found out KALI word is more appealing to the western world market… meaning another potential U$ (U$ Dollar) source… a TRUE product of Filipino ingenuity. Like Imeldefic… another word for something fabulously grandiose and fantastic.
“Gene”
So the word “Kali” was a mere invention by a filipino practictioner in US. Doesn’t change the fact that it is what the rest of the world knows our martial arts arnis/eskrima to be. Are you starting a campaign to correct this misnomer? I must admit i find no cultural affinity with the word whatsoever.
After reading the findings of other Philippine based FMA writers/ local FMA field researchers, the article of Talibung Antike and the comment of Torqui it makes sense to me to conclude that “KALI” although it sounds cool and mystical, it is indeed etiologically inappropriate and the claim being propagated that it is the ancient mother art of Eskrima/Arnis is indeed historically and culturally baseless.
“Gene”
Our family is from Negros Oriental and the word ‘Kali’ in this province refers to the act of digging. Escrima, doce pares, pangamut, bugno and arnis are the ones being referred to as our martial art…. By the way, a friend of mine often mention to me the word ‘Langka’ (a malay word) as one of the variants of Kali, for example, ‘Langka Kuting’ – a higher level in the practice of Kali. Well, I still have to dig this further. He is by the way a Christian, but has lineage from Muslim Mindanaons. He practices Kali before with his (muslim) cousin from Mindanao.
By the way, I got this from the net …
http://12fma.blogspot.com/2008/07/kalis-turkish-malay-sanskrit.html
“After checking available archaeological evidence, linguistic proof, and historical accounts, I am confident to say that keris, the malaysian and Indonesian kris, is from the Turkish word, kilich (sword). Even the genetic map, made from several human genome projects, supports my contention that Turkish influences, including their genes and weaponry, reached Mindanao before the Spanish came to the Philippines in sixteenth century.
In Malay, ch usually becomes s and l replaces r (and vice-versa). Thus, from kilich, it evolved to kiris. I suspect that the Sanskrit kera (coconut) and ker (to cut) entered the malay lexicon and influenced the evolution of kiris to keris. Keris is not entirely a Sanskrit word. The suffix -is cannot be found in Indian languages. For this reason, the Turkish kilish makes sense.
There are malay words whose e was i originally. In visayan languages, for instance, e usually becomes i, whose sound is hard and stiff. That’s why Visayans are known for their “hard tongue.” In short i and e are interchangeable. However, Malay languages are sensitive when it comes to a vowel change. Once it is changed, its meaning or its being a part of speech is also affected.
In Philippine languages, ibon is not the same as ebon. The latter is egg and the former is bird. I suspect that kiris and keris have the same linguistic similarity– kiris might have been the general word for sword with no specific meaning and later it became keris, a special sword with a particular meaning and use. Linguistically, the meaning of a word evolves from general to specific.
In Mindanao, keris is kalis, the word used by the Muslims for kris. Deep words in the Philippines have Malay origins, and some Malay words have Turkish Arabic beginnings, and most of them have Sanskrit etymologies. I have observed that foreign-influenced Malay words that entered the Philippine languages are re-Sanskritized. That it is also one of the evidence supporting the presence of Hinduism and early Indians in the Islands before the Spanish colonization.
Tagalog dalita (poor) is from derita (suffering), which is from dharta, the Sanskrit word for “restrained.” Derita became dalita after early Filipinos re-Sanskritized derita by incorporating dal, the Sanskrit root word for “suppressed.” It is the same linguistic explanation with salita (word) from the old Malay word serita and Sanskrit cerita. The Sanskrit word sali or salit, which means “including,” obviously a function of a word that includes meanings, images, and sounds, became part of the re-Sanskritized Filipino salita.
Salamat (thanks) is from seramat or selamat (survive or safe), which is from the Sanskrit word, sala or salam, meaning, house or pavilion, which denotes safety. Seramat or selamat became salamat after the Sanskrit root word sal (sea) was incorporated. Early Filipinos in coastal areas were seafarers, and the sea surrounding them was the source of their worries and object of their prayers for safety. There are rituals that are still done or prepared to calm the sea in the Philippines.
I see the same pattern of linguistic evolution in berita to balita (news), aremat to alamat (legend), and berat to balat (skin, peel, or cover). It is also the same word change that happened to keris when it became kalis. Keris became kilis or kelis, and then the sanskrit kal or kali (dark) entered the equation. Thus, keris became kalis.”
What do you think?
It doesn’t really matter to me if guys out of the Philippines uses the term kali to represent their “Filipino” martial art. Its their business anyway. What irritates me is when they try to lecture and educate Filipinos about their own culture and history. Kali as we know it today is definitely American, it started there in the 80′s by ex-eskrima and ex-arnis guys who were very aware that westerners know nothing about the Philippines in general and its fighting methods in particular. The ground of ignorance was too fertile and ready for some digging and planting of kali seeds. Kali yuga was ripe and in season.
hmm.. all this talk about KALI is B.S!
i’ve been a martial artist all my life.. grew up here in iloilo.. move to the U.S. for quite awhile.. many years… also studied Arnis w/ a Pinoy master in US… damn! i was like, hmmm what is KALI??? coz the westerners calls it KALI aside from Arnis/Eskrima/Escima… i told them, hey dude i know in the Philippines we call it Arnis/Eskrima but never KALI! also i have relatives in the South(Mindanao.. ask them regarding KALI.. they all look at each other and laugh at it!
they know Silat, Arnis Eskrima but never KALI was in existence in the South.. Ur correct that in the U.S. the word KALI was a marketing ploy to attract westerners to our art calling it KALI(making it exotic sounding)compare to Arnis/Eskrima(Spanish influenced)
Now u guys may ask b4 the Spanish came what was our art??? we have it! it’s our native sword/knives and called whatever dialect ur from in the Philippines during that early century… example Sundang, Puyal etc etc whatever u call it in your region..
Arnis/Eskrima later was coined by during the Spanish era thus how we have structured our art little by little til now.. 
But mind you guys outside the Philippines… KALI is a Bullshit word, i mean totally! nothing wrong w/ it calling it KALI… BUT its misleading to the people outside the Philippines especially when addressing the origin part of it… I know where I’m coming from and have been asking my grandfather(former governor of Iloilo for many years, language expert and knows more than u guys the history of Iloilo or Panay) who’s not around anymore… during the time he was alive he said that he never encountered calling Arnis/Eskrima as KALI!
KALI u think is ARNIS/ESKRIMA??? its definitely B.S. word! Has no basis AND will never be Arnis/Eskrima… If u ask one million Filipino about KALI… you get an overwhelming negative response… who else knows about their culture than the people indigenous to that place!
Just my 2cents..
KALI?
very well said.when s the book cominng?
Respect, but more importantly, TRUTH. Keep it up, Talibong.
I would just like to add some info on Mr. Juan dela Cruz.
He is a true follower of “KALI” but a blind one. His defense of”kali” cannot be refuted because he have been brainwashed by his GM like many other “kai” followers and the “RESPECT” they have to their GM. Having been with his “kali” group for sometime
you dont expect this guy to change his mind. But there’a saying that says “ONLY A FOOL DOES NOT CHANGE HIS MIND”.
After Mr. Tinni Macachor and Dr. Ned Nepangue published their book on eskrima myth the”kali” guys were very uneasy.
Infact the guy frm Rochester New York posted on FMA Forum “Kali will be there in the next 100 years and you cannot chage that”.
Poor fellow so blind to his GM’s beliefs.
We are here to educate them…hope they will open their eyes to the world of truth..not fantasy of “kali” as the FMA mother art and its existense in the Filipino language(not in Wikepedia).
Fred
Let us not argue with this very complex issue. The reason why a lot of people were confused of the terminology being used in the FMA is that because of the nature and geographical setting of the Philippine Island. First, please accept the fact that the country is made up of some 7,100 island with different subcultures, dialect and ways of life now I am pretty sure we get the picture already. Visayan, Tagalog, Warays, Ilocanos or more to mention, when you put them together and without using the Pilipino langguage then I guess that is the only time that they would understand each other. The word “langam” in Tagalog which refer to “ants” may not be the same meaning in Visayan dialect which means “bird”. Another example is “pusud”. In Bacolod, the term “pusud” refers to a certain place but in some places in the country it may refered to a certain part of the body. It is so hard to trace our history not of because our ancestors is not into writing, remember the “Alibata” already exist before any colonials reached the Philippines. No need to further explained the facts about the Alibata which is the ancient writings of our ancestors. Our ancestors instead carved or shall i say put their writings in leaves, bamboos, wood, lime stone walls or whatever they can get within their means and that is one of the reason why only few of this artifacts remains today. As part of the oldest teachings that says “blessed are those who believe even they don’t see it and have faith” the same faith that will soon unite the whole FMA community. I am a believer of faith where no man should pass judgement to another unless thee is worthy. I learned something unique from my ancestry and my legacy would be to pass them on with no prejudice to whom who is able and willing.
There is no such thing as Kali. Anyone with even a little knowledge of Filipino culture and history knows that there’s no such thing as a mother art called Kali. We have GM Floro Villabrille to blame for spreading the legend of “Kali”. He did not anticipate that the internet would arrive in the 1990s and enable people to verify or disprove the truth of his claims about a “blind princess Josefina” or a mother art called Kali.
If FMA masters will use the term Kali, let them use it without relying on legends and myths or tall tales. Let them say that they prefer it to eskrima or arnis in the same way that the Japanese changed the word “KaraTe” (Chinese hand) into “KaraTe” (empty hand) simply because of nationalism, without having to invent legends or tall tales.
Even GM Leo Gaje himself used to call his art “Pekiti Tirsia ARNIS”. This was in the 1970s. If you look on the Internet you will find that he put up the “ARNIS America Organization” (AAO) in the 1970s to promote FMA. Arnis was the term his grandfather Conrado Tortal used. GM Floro Villabrille
[...] is a response to the article written by Talibung Antike (Is “KALI” appropriate to describe an indigenous blade based Filipino Martial Arts?) for Juan Dela Cruz who wrote: I think you need to back up your claims with researches and [...]
I think what popularized the term “Kali”, especially in North America was both the work of Dan Inosanto, who I believe was the first to use the term on print in the 1970′s I think.
That, as well as Grand Tuhon Leo Gaje Jr. He dubs his pekiti tirsia system “Kali” and is someone who perpetuates a lot of the myths surrounding the name and how it was brought up. I respect the man for his fighing system and how effective it is — it really is a great system to learn, but we also have to keep a sense of realism regarding its origins.
Many systems that call themselves ‘Kali’ are newer and not older than eskrima or arnis. I have no idea why it’s a popular term globally compared to eskrima or arnis, but it is. Does that mean that fighting systems under tha name of Kali are less effective than a system that dubs itself eskrima or Arnis? Of course not.
I, personally, like to concern myself more with whether of not a fighting system works or not. Filipino Martial Arts in general work incredibly well in a modern day context, and I think naming systems is a more recent phenomenon, especially with local and smaller family styles.
My instructor is teaching his family style mixed with some techniques he picked up from lameco Eskrima and he calls it Kali from time to time. He has no agenda behind caling it Kali and sometimes refers to it as Eskrima as well. He claims to have never grown up hearing it called kali or Arnis for that matter, and I’ve never grown up hearing it called kali either.
It doesn’t bother me though. To me, so long as it’s still an effective martial art, then I’m satisfied no matter what you call it. Once our filipino martial arts stop being effective and change for the worse then I’ll be concerned.
I also believe that Tuhon Gaje is keen on calling it “Kali” because it’s not a name of spanish origin. His mindset comes from a very anti-imperialist view so he wants to colloquialize a non-spanish term for the filipino martial arts.
Again, I myself don’t care either way. If it works then I honestly don’t care if you call it Tinkerbell-fu. It will still be some sort of FMA and will be an effective way to defend yourself.
I think this is the same problem with us Filipinos for so many centuries now that we don’t have unity. Pardon for my ignorance but not until I got here in the U.S. ever really got to know other subculture or history from other islands in the Philippines. As my roots and my origins it is my obligation to go back to my past so I can be proud of it. It is wrong to say that because in your place you never encounter the term “KALI” it never exist in some other place. I don’t know where else but when I was a kid learning “The Art” my maestro uses the term Eskrima Kali Abanico Arnis. Why? I don’t know why! Same term that was introduced to him during his younger times learning the art, he was then some 60 years older than me. Now I am to my late 30′s. Try to sum it up? God bless his soul, if he is still alive I am sure he would be very happy knowing that somebody tries to carry on his legacy and the legacy of his ancestors before him. Di nata mag pata-asay sa ihi! I am proud to call this art our own and I will do my best to carry on. After all it is our legacy, call it whatever you like to call it. It is a Filipino Martial Art. Mapasalamaton! Lumadsigbinkali
Mga kababayan! The meaning of the word “kali” in ilocos region is ‘to dig.’ We call the art “pinnang-oran if it’s with a stick and “tinnagbatan” if it’s with a bolo or machete. I am pretty much sure that there are more versions of this all throughout the region but i think people will laugh if they will here the word ‘kali’ to refer to our Filipino sword or stick fighting because the word simply means to dig!
I am not trying to disprove anyone; I am just trying to say that kali had never, is never and will never be used to refer to our Filipino Eskrima/Arnis in the ilocos region.
Just a piece of thought!
Cheers!
For Eskrima Arnis or Kali, Does it matter?,
From the start, the issue was never the effectivity of the art. It was and still is the HISTORICITY of the word Kali and its various dubious claims as the Mother Art for all FMA, of Islamic origins, etc.
I agree with you that the primary purpose of a martial art is its effectivity. But the problem is the LIES that go with the word.
The idea behind the lies is that Kali is older and better than Arnis and Eskrima because it is older (although in reality, “Kali” was born out of Arnis and Eskrima)
Following this logic, does it mean that the bow and arrow is better than a gun since it predated it? Or would it be OK to call a gun bow and arrow and vice versa because both can kill people? Sadly the answer to both is NO.
Many Kali advocates would say it’s just a name, why fuss over it. In the first place, why make a lot of fraudulent claims to mess up FMA history?
Whether you and/or the Filipinos like it or not, the Philippines had been colonized by the Spaniards for 333 years. In fact, the various Filipino languages of the Philippine archipelago would show influences and traces of the Spanish language. Even Pekiti Tirsia Kali uses Spanish-derived words.
Being patriotic doesn’t mean to change the Spanish sounding names to a Malay sounding name which unfortunately does not have a documented historical basis. There are hundreds, even thousands, of Spanish-derived words in the various Filipino languages. Why not change them as well if it is the intent of changing Arnis and Eskrima into Kali.
It can be justified as anti-imperialism but it can be seen as revisionist history. In legal parlance, fraud or falsification.
The question is the HISTORICITY, not the effectivity of the art.
Well said, mr. sy. let us not distort our history.
i presented this “kali” myth as muslim bladed fighting/martial arts to my tausog friends…
they flatly deny it’s never a part of their lupahsog heritage…
i ceased then to press the issue further.
We have a strong evidence that Kali as a Philosophy had been existed here in the island of Negros..Those who does not believe in its existence must be lack of research about the Shri Vijayan Empire that once ruled the visayas region (negros)..All they are talking and referring about are history and ethemology from spanish era…
We have history of the Kali existence from the U.S.Library of congress,Kalimantan Java Historical Archive,and Indonesian Historical Board..Most of the historical facts we have cannot be seen or read in Filipino Historical Book or any data, not even in most Philippine Libraries…Time will come that Pekiti-Tirsia Kali System will smash this facts to all money maker and so called fma instructors specifically in Negros Occidental..This instructors are actually the ADULTERATOR and PROSTITUTE of the Filipino culture..Usually mixing up the purity of FMA with chinese or japanese art..A total disgrace and humiliation to the embraced cultural pride of Filipinos…An act punishable by death!
Hi Mel,
For the sake of us unbelievers, would you be kind enough to present your “evidence(s)?”
Maybe, maybe if these evidences are valid enough you may be able to change people to your perspective.
In the Court of Law, mere mention of the Library of Congress and others do not constitute evidence. Under the law, everyone is given equal protection. That is, if one is the defendant he can always present VALID evidence to clear his name.
But until no VALID evidence is forwarded, the FACTS remain, the HISTORICITY of the NAME Kali as the unadulterated supreme Mother Art of all Filipino Martial Arts is a a big question mark that awaits to be authenticated.
And yes, in the Republic of the Philippines, the Death Penalty can only be issued by the Courts of Law, unless otherwise we’re talking of unlawful death penalty just like in the Maguindanao Massacre.
Dear Practitioners,
I am a martial artist and adopted son of Bacolod City who has studied Filipino martial arts (FMA) both in the United States and Philippines, since 1975. I have had the privilege to learn from superb teachers in various styles, methods, and systems. During my research on FMAs, I traveled on Luzon, Cebu, Negros, Boracay, Panay, and Mindanao seeking evidence of so-called KALI. I also interviewed instructors in California, Hawaii, and where I live in Louisiana. These places were settled by Filipinos who emigrated to the United States. I have read the chronicles of Magellan’s Voyage. Captain Magellan died on Mactan Island when his armed forces fought against the indigenous armed forces led by Datu Lapu Lapu. Whenever there is armed conflict, there is a blending of martial arts. Antonio Pigafetta described the knife used by people now called the Cebuanos as a “calix.” Perhaps, this is the origin of the “kalis” that became the art of Kali. To my knowledge, KALI is modern nomenclature, aside from the Hindu Goddess of thuggee legend. It was created to serve the nationalist and personal interests of instructors of Filipino descent who are/were teaching FMAs in the United States. This understanding of mine came with much personal grief, because the promoters of KALI were my own teachers and I have gotten both useful knowledge and certificates in their styles, systems, and methods. In fact, I have rank certificates that may say Arnis, Eskrima, or Kali on them. So I can teach the FMAs under any of those names. But I want to be true to myself and others. When I established my own umbrella FMA organization in 1991, Classic Eskrima, this matter of what to call the Filipino martial arts as could be authenticated was foremost in my mind. Here in this forum, I know Mr. James U. Sy, Jr. and Mr. Rommel Tortal. They are two excellent practitioners who seek the truth of Filipino martial arts through understanding. We are left with the problem of the “name of the rose.” A rose is a rose, by any other name. Escrima was certainly the martial art of Spanish conquistadores. What survived in blending after the development of firearms and colonization by the Americans, became indigenous knowledge held by Filipinos. But if you read about the Katipuneros, you will see that they adopted Spanish weapons in resistance fighting. The famous Apache Chief Geronimo learned how ride a horse and shoot a rifle in opposition to American expansion. Before the Spanish who brought horses and the English who brought guns, the Apaches walked on foot and used archery. Their knife fighting was developed with imported steel weapons. Eskrima was reborn during Japanese occupation and continued later as Arnis, until recently. Kali was created recently as a blending of Southeast Asian martial arts techniques to illustrate the Majapahit or Sri Vishayan heritage. Recent evidence suggests that the Philippine Archipelago was first settled by Negritos and later conquered by people from Taiwan in the Austronesian expansion. The name of Kali comes to us like the name of Taekwondo. Both arts claim an ancient lineage, but their techniques are built-up recently and evolving always. If you look closely at Pekiti Tirsia as I have, you can see the elements of Spanish influenced court dances and movements from the Ricarte Eskrima System. I have a Pekiti Tirsia certificate that calls the Filipino martial arts Arnis. I have another one that calls the Filipino martial arts Kali. I call it Eskrima.
Yours, Ron Harris
Off topic: A lesson in grammar…
Quote: “Those who does not believe in its existence must be lack of research about the Shri Vijayan Empire that once ruled the visayas region (negros)..”
* Those is plural so it should be “Those who DO not…”
* The dictionary defines must as “To be obliged or required by morality, law, or custom” so is Rommel requiring people to “lack research?” The statement should have been “Those who DO not believe in its existence lack research…”
* Visayas is spelled with a capital V because it is a proper noun.
* The Visayas region is not only Negros Island. You also have the islands of Panay, Cebu, Siquijor, Samar, Leyte.
* Although it can also be spelled as Shri, the word is universally transliterated as Sri and used to address Gods in Hindu pantheon, elders, teachers, holy men and any individual.
On Topic:
Which brings me to my first point. Mr. Rommel was claiming that the Sri Vijaya Empire ruled the Visayas so the questions are:
Were the early Malays of Panay Island Hindus then?
If he says no, he has just contradicted himself.
If he says yes, what’s his proof?
The early Bornean settlers were pagans who worshipped Bulalakaw in Madia-as, not Kali the Black One.
Rommel claims to know pre-Hispanic history of the Philippines so that means he knows what was the pre-Hispanic name of the Philippines. So Mr. Rommel what’s the pre-Hispanic name of the Philippines?
The real question is if he can give a name, can we find such name in ANCIENT records about the Sri Vijaya Empire? All the supposed “sources” he has offered as evidence are all MODERN TIME, which is much, much younger than Spanish Era sources.
Can we find the name Pekiti-Tirsia in the Malay language in the pre-Hispanic times? Surely Rommel can not because both words are derived from Spanish words.
Is this to say that Pekiti-Tirsia is also adulterated? If PTK disdains Arnis and Eskrima as Spanish words, why still use Pekiti-Tirsia which is also Spanish-derived?
PROSTITUTE, as defined by dictionaries, means “One who solicits and accepts payment for sex acts; One who sells one’s abilities, talent, or name.” Pekiti-Tirsia is being taught in the Philippines, USA, and Europe. Go figure.
I can go on and on but i’m sure Rommel is not capable to parry the points I’ve raised convincingly so I’ll leave it at that for the meantime.
My belief is if Rommel’s grammar doesn’t stand to par, it only follows that his research also doesn’t stand to par.
As regards them issuing the death penalty, if forced enough eskrimadors might as well give them what they want, a real fight.